The following is a sequel of sorts to my previous post as I wanted to share even more variations between the original KJV and the current edition.
Again, my question to KJV-Onlyists is this: How do you determine what is perfect or not? If you had a 1611 KJV in your hands, would you be holding the perfect Word of God? Why or why not? At what point did the KJV become the perfect Word of God? Was it in 1612, 1613, 1616, 1629, 1638, or 1769? The KJV was edited a bit in each of those years. Is the 1769 edition perfect? Why? Which: the Oxford edition or the Cambridge edition? Why? What about the Modern King James Version or the Comfort-able King James Version?
Was there a perfect Word of God in English in 1768? If so, why was it edited a year later?
Most importantly, I would like to ask this: if the 1769 edition of the English Bible is perfect, what was the perfect Bible a year before that? Clearly it couldn’t have been the KJV ’cause it was still in need of editing.
KJV-Onlyism is a divisive tradition full of more holes than a bowl of Cheerios. May the Lord open the eyes and ears of all those trapped by this stronghold, just as He did for me.
Here are some more changes between the 1611 and the 1769 editions of the KJV. You can see that the changes in some instances affect the meaning of the context quite significantly!
- Deuteronomy 26:1 — “which the Lord giueth” vs. “which the LORD thy God giveth”
- Joshua 13:29 — “tribe of Manasseh, by” vs. “tribe of the children of Manasseh by”
- Ruth 3:15 — “he went into the citie” vs. “she went into the city”
- Psalm 69:32 — “seeke good” vs. “seek God”
- Jeremiah 49:1 — “inherit God” vs. “inherit Gad”
- Matthew 16:16 — “Thou art Christ” vs. “Thou art the Christ”
- Mark 10:18 — “There is no man good” vs. “there is none good” (note that now “there is” is marked as being added by the translators for clarity)
- 1 Corinthians 4:9 — “approued to death” vs. “appointed to death”
In addition to all of those variations, there is another interesting one at Jeremiah 34:16.
Modern versions of the KJV (the Oxford edition and the Cambridge edition) vary on this matter. The Oxford ed. says “…whom ye had set at liberty…” while the Cambridge ed. says “…whom he had set at liberty…”
Which is correct?
If the KJV alone is our authority, how on earth would we ever figure it out? However, thankfully, the preserved manuscript evidence is our authority, not a translation from that preserved evidence. The Hebrew in that passage is plural, and so “you” (or, as the KJV would read, “ye”) is the correct translation. But if all you have in your hands are two KJVs — one Oxford and one Cambridge — how could you ever come to any sort of conclusion? Even if you had the Hebrew text there, certain forms of radical KJV-Onlyism, such as that of Dr. Ruckman and his supporters, would prohibit using the Hebrew text — especially if it would override what the KJV says (or, in this instance, what the preferred edition of the KJV says).
Thank the Lord that He has preserved His Word through a mass of manuscripts which allow us to know His Word thoroughly rather than a singular translation which limits our studies to the interpretations of fallible men (i.e., “God forbid” is an interpretation — the word “God” doesn’t even appear in the Greek in those passages, but if you are forbidden to look at the Greek by an Onlyist doctrine, how would you ever know‽).
The above information is from the excellent work The King James Only Controversy by James R. White, which I recommend to anyone curious about whether modern Bible versions are trustworthy or not.
The variations between the 1611 & the 1769 editions of the KJV can be verified using e-Sword which has both Bibles available for download freely.
My question in addition to the above:
Most KJVOs argue that the translation process was inerrant, but the printing process was not. But in what other form has the KJV existed other than printed form? Pre-printed? The pre-printed KJV, considered by many to be inerrant, perished in the Great Fire after being purchased by Barker (the printer). Based on what were the corrections after the year 1666 (most KJVs published today are post-1666 editions) made? Other errant prints? A third revision revelation?
If God willed for us to have a perfect translation in English, why would he go through all the trouble of translating inerrantly only to have man goof up when printing the very first copy in 1611. And the second. And the third, and so on… When did the KJV become perfect?
The Bible supports clearly and precisely that God gave man His word. It also supports clearly and precisely that it is our responsibility to spread that word. And we have been, are, and will continue to do this. But nowhere in the Bible does it even hint toward the possibility of Gods hand in a second revelation, or His hand in a single inerrant translation. This is all a man-made doctrine, fabricated by those wanting to guess how God works, and what God prefers.
Psalms 119:89 does not say “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in the KJV”.
I have chosen to remove KJVO from my faith because it has no scripture backing it. It leaves a path of hatred and division that is really sad to see in our churches today. The translation we choose should not be an excuse for hatred or separation simply because it’s not the KJV.
Actually, my Pitt Minion Cambridge edition has “whom ye had set at liberty…” for Jeremiah 34:16, which you list above as being the Oxford variant. I have noticed that even among Cambridge editions, there are some variations in some verses, including italics in Scrivener’s work where they are lacking in the Pitt Minion and the Concord. I use Cambridge editions in the (possibly naïve) hope that I am coming close to a 1769 revision of the AV. Surely (one would hope) the Cambridge people have had the opportunity to maintain a good continuity in AV text since they’ve been publish English bibles since the late 1500s…but it appears that even at the pivotal point of 1769 there is more than one English text afoot.
Thank you for addressing this difficult topic.
John Rochelle, Gray, Tennessee
I’ve been rolling back a copy of a Cambridge printing to read like the 1611 version, with a few potential changes marked in the notes based on evidence — experience in 16th/17th century English, comparison with earlier translations, etc., to preserve the exact 1611 text in modern spelling and at the same time a reconstructed text based on my conjecture and based on the newer printings.
It will be a long time before I get anywhere :/
The “which edition?” question is answered from a KJBO view on my bibleprotector website.
Bible Protector: Commenting in a way that does not add to the conversation at all but instead solely advertises your own site is spam, so I’m removing your link. Curious users can find you via Google.
The challenges which arise due to editions and revisions of the King James Version pale in comparison to various other issues Onlyists must face.
Which edition is correct? Easy: They are all correct.
Obviously you don’t understand at all how preservation works.
And you evidently have no idea how “truth” works; the editions contradict each other. If they’re all correct, which truth is more, well, true?
Jim posed an excellent question. There are indeed today at least one and possibly two annotated Bishop’s Bibles that were used by the Translators to take notes and effect changes where necessary. There is also in existence one notebook which was the work of one of the translators on the Pauline Epistles. That was discovered in the 1950’s in a public library in England which one of the Translators founded. Also, there are printed editions that were made to correct printing errors from editions that had flooded the market from foreign printers as well as public. So, if the scholars can collate the appropriate text, then why can’t the KJV printers? Is that not a double standard? Absolutely. So, manuscript evidence actually shows that there were editions printed with the proper text at certain printers throughout the entire process. Maybe all of them did not occur at Cambridge in subsequent printings. Maybe all of them did not occur in subsequent printings in Oxford. However, the fact is that there is a testimony out there. In short, the “major” differences of the 1769 edition and the 1611 edition often came down to 12 variant readings caused by a misprint and which were easy to find the correct reading by collating the text. The daftness of some people thinking scholars can collate some 5,000+ Greek Manuscripts, the thousands of translations, hundreds of thousands of quotes by Christians from the early centuries and other such issues to produce a proper Greek reading but they cannot do it with less than 500 variants caused by a misprint. On top of that, how can they not do it when there is proof that in all reality only 136 variants were the issue. Add to that the fact that the 1769 edition and 1611 edition vary in almost twelve places only due to misprints. Wow, and I thought normal people could be ignorant. The thought of being able to do all of that scholarly work in the Greek and Hebrew yet not being able to figure out 12 readings that have already been taken care of. So, when it is all said and done, even if you are not KJVO, what is the issue? If you picked up your Bible and there were a mere 12 misprints would it not be the Bible? Has the pure Word of God then been polluted? After all if it said: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Sun, that whosoever believeth in him should perish, but have everlasting wife; any person would know Sun should be Son, begotten is missing between only and Son, not is missing in between should and perish and wife should be life. Ridiculous, I know, but now you see the context of your wisdom. In that one instance, if another edition were printed correctly that one verse would make the two editions disagree four times, one-third of what the 1769 and 1611 edition did. Try studying these things more in full before just blundering about through passages. Remember, don’t bash people who do not use the KJV, but don’t bash people who do. Bash the scholars who misrepresent the truth to supply their side with a stacked deck. Also, the fact that English-speaking people do not know what the differences are between an edition and a revision is sad. Editions have to do with editing, and editing is the process whereby the work is ensured as adhering to all of the rules of grammar, usages, punctuations, spellings and other such things. However, a revision is the work whereby the writer rearranges thoughts, ideas and details in the work, along with structuring of sentences, paragraphs and words used to convey what is intended. The restructuring of words would have to do with a complete rearranging and not with a correction of words that may have been left out. A revision, by definition, deals with significant changes. Editing only takes place after revision and deals with correcting something overlooked. So, a revision is not the same thing as an edition. If editions contradict each other, the question is not which text is true, but which printing is true. So, my question would be, which revision of the NIV is true? Is it the NIV, NIVi, NIrV, TNIV? When children dabble in a grown ups arena they always find themselves corrected and sent away sullen. That is the case with today’s KJVO crowd as well as those who oppose the KJVO crowd. Everyone needs to do more studying before making ignorant statements. That is all. Have fun! : )
Oh, and for anyone who wants the Pure text, since that is what everyone is driving at, try looking into the 1900’s Cambridge Pure Edition which was indeed the final edition of the KJV where all of the textual variants made due to printer’s errors have been refined. In that case, if I were to argue the KJVO point, the 1611 was perfect from the beginning till some muckity-muck with a hankering for a buck started cranking out misprinted Bibles and that faithful men using collation finally got them all weeded out around the same time that printing became “modernized”. Now we have digitalized printing. That should be a hoot in about twenty years!